On Killing
The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society
by Dave Grossman, Lt Grossman · first published 1995
51% recommend41% neutral7% critical
Why HN recommends it
Examines the psychology of killing: how militaries condition soldiers to overcome an aversion to it, why it takes a toll, and how veterans cope. Suits readers curious about war, PTSD, and conditioning.
Common criticism: Its core research, S.L.A. Marshall's firing-ratio data, is widely considered fabricated
Summarised by Claude from recommending comments
The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion. And contemporary civilian society, particularly the media, replicates the army's conditioning techniques, and, according to Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's thesis, is responsible for our rising rate of murder among the young. Upon its initial publication, On Killing was hailed as a landmark study of the techniques the military uses to overcome the powerful reluctance to kill, of how killing affects soldiers, and of the societal implications of escalating violenc
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That's an important point. For a more detailed discussion of it, I recommend Dave Grossman's On Killing. He makes a convincing argument that the long-term downward trend in the U.S. murder rate is a function of faster trips to the hospital (due to better first responder protocols), and better care once…
on “John Gray: Steven Pinker is wrong about violence and war” ↗On Killing by Dave Grossman explores the research backing up your friend's assertion in depth. I highly recommend that book to anyone whose interest is piqued by your comment.
on “Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon” ↗Actually, the greatest trick of waging war is to convince people to kill other people, and that's done with plain ol' operant conditioning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning Read "On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society." The author, Dave Grossman, is an Army Ranger and a Psychology professor at West Point. He lays down an argument that most people have a…
on “Lessons In Survival - why elite military forces bounce back faster” ↗You may be interested in Dave Grossman's "On Killing": http://www.amazon.com/On-Killing-Psychological-Learning-Soci... Grossman is a Psychology professor at West Point (or was when he wrote this), and a former Army Ranger, although he never saw combat.…
on “A violently true depiction of what war really is ” ↗…seemed to be more about relating the experiences of his friends than his own personal thoughts and feelings. The best analysis I've seen about the combatant are the works of LCol. Grossman. On Combat and On Killing are outstanding pieces of work that say pretty much the exact opposite of W here.
on “A violently true depiction of what war really is ” ↗…what most people crave is to be told that whatever they're doing is OK. Don Draper: banned on Google+. :) I remember that scene (in Mad Men) quite well and I think it's insightful. It reminds me of On Killing, an excellent book on the psychological effects of war. One proposed candidate for the increasing prevalence of PTSD is the way soldiers are treated when they return from war. War has always been terrible,…
on “Why two men committing the same crime get different chances at a parole” ↗…It's because in the latter you see your victim. And immediately relate to that victim [edit: 1]. Which makes shooting him or her exceedingly difficult. It's an interesting parallel. The book is called On Killing, by US Lt. Col. Dave Grossman. [1] Unless the shooter is psychotic.
on “I am very real” ↗…may be on balance the right thing to do, actually taking pleasure in the act of killing, even for "a good cause", tends to have bad effects on the killers. Maybe read LTC Dave Grossman's standard book _On Killing_. http://www.amazon.com/Killing-Psychological-Cost-Learning-So...
on “Google Pays for Drones To Bust African Rhino Poachers” ↗For a historical view of PTSD and warfare, I recommend Lt. Dave Grossman's "On Killing". I don't agree with his conclusions about video games and violence, but the picture he draws of how soldiers used to demobilize, and how that adjustment period related to coping with PTSD, in different…
on “Does everyone who suffers trauma have PTSD?” ↗I'd also have to add the companion to Grossman's book "On Killing," "On Combat." [0] [0] http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0964920549/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_d...
on “Military Professional Reading Lists” ↗There's an interesting book related to that, called "On Killing".[1] It's about the psychological conditioning that killers-to-be undergo to actually get them to kill. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Killing
on “War Is a Racket by General Smedley D. Butler (1933)” ↗I suggest anyone intrigued by this pick up a copy of LCol. Paul Grossman's work: On Killing.
on “A violently true depiction of what war really is ” ↗I recommend reading Dave Grossman's book On Killing.[1] From the blurb: "The good news is that most soldiers are loath to kill. But armies have developed sophisticated ways of overcoming this instinctive aversion. And contemporary civilian society, particularly…
on “Did President Obama just order the government to study video game violence?” ↗On Killing by Dave Grossman is a little outdated, but still an excellent read about how the military conditions soldiers to become killers. I'd strongly recommend it.
on “Driving for Uber as an Iraq War Vet” ↗…to kill - it doesn’t take many months to train someone to pull a trigger, but it does take many months to get them to point a gun a person and pull the trigger. There is a fantastic book on this topic On Killing [1]. 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00J90F8W2/
on “The “Auschwitz concentration camp personnel” database” ↗