Start with no
by Jim Camp · first published 2002
69% recommend31% neutral
Why HN recommends it
Practical negotiation guide built on questioning tactics and the value of saying no. It shows how to approach rates and deals, and suits anyone who negotiates, from founders to salespeople.
Summarised by Claude from recommending comments
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The most profitable advice I've gotten for charging good rates comes from two sources: 1. Jim Camp's negotiation book, "Start with No": http://www.amazon.com/Start-No-Negotiating-Tools-that-ebook/... One key takeaway: You can refuse to compromise on your rates, provided that you can afford to walk away if necessary. 2. Patrick McKenzie's…
on “Ask HN: How to move beyond “freelancer”?” ↗1. Start with no - this is an awesome primer on negotiating 2. Never split the difference - ditto . IMO, "start with no" is a sub set of this but it is worth separately anyway 3. Fooled by randomness 4. The black swan…
on “Ask HN: Life Changing Books?” ↗I once asked a very good negotiator for the best book he could recommend on negotiation, and he directed me to Start With No. (URL: http://rcm.amazon.com/e/cm?lt1=_blank&bc1=000000&IS2...) I've read it, it made sense to me, I've noticed a number of good negotiators doing things it suggests and my (admittedly few) negotiations…
on “Ask HN: So I quit my job to focus on my startup...” ↗…every several years, reading a book on it is very worthwhile. If you can negotiate yourself an extra $1000 bonus, once, the book has paid for itself with interest. The two books I recommend there are Start with No and Bargaining for Advantage. I'd recommend the first if you need a general purpose bargaining strategy and aren't experienced. I'd recommend the second if you're an experienced bargainer who is looking…
on “Ask HN: Interesting (Non software) books?” ↗…able to get surprisingly good rates. And step #1 is knowing what you are worth. Step #2 is knowing how to negotiate. There are a lot of good books you can pick up on the topic. I personally picked up Start With No and Bargaining For Advantage a few years back. A 2 digit investment in materials, and a 2 digit expenditure in hours has easily been worth over 6 figures to my bank account. I expect it to have paid…
on “HN statistics” ↗Start with No by Jim Camp. Maybe it didn't change my mind about "everything," but it did change my mind about everything related to negotiating. The premise is that "no," is not an answer to be feared and avoided…
on “Ask HN: What books changed the way you think about almost everything?” ↗…this sounds harsh - if you've exchanged 75 emails and not made a sale, you need to learn to sell better. Read "Demonstrating to win" (cheesy title but absolute gold for enterprise solution sales), and "Start with No" by Jim Camp (fantastically logical and easy to use way of negotiating that will appeal to techies) Good luck!
on “Ask HN: How to avoid ghosting by potential customers?” ↗…founded CompanyX to embody these values. We just happen to make the most pragmatic and most efficient Widgets currently on the market." So you start with Why, and the What(product) will naturally follow. Start with No: http://mixergy.com/negotiate-jim-camp/ The default answer people will give you is "no", because "no" maintains the status quo and is therefore always a safe choice. If you start by telling the potential…
on “Ask HN: How to sell?” ↗…seem inclined on entrepreneurship, I would highly recommend that you tackle negotiation skills, since those tend to define the financial outcome of idea+implementation. You can start with Jim Camp book "Start with NO...The Negotiating Tools that the Pros Don't Want You to Know" and reading about Richard Branson, and go from there. Good luck.
on “DomainPolish: From MVP To Exit In 6 Months” ↗Start with No https://www.amazon.com/Start-Negotiating-Tools-that-Pros/dp/... Contradicts conventional wisdom about negotiation goals and tactics. Very actionable advice about using interrogative led questions and…
on “Ask HN: What books have made the biggest impact on your mental models?” ↗Start With No by Jim Camp, and Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss are two very good books on how to use/work with "No" in negotiations.
on “The Story of Why I Left Riot Games” ↗Don't learn sales, learn people. Reading recs: * the social triggers podcasts by Derek Halpern * Start with No by Jim Camp * Demonstrating to Win (super cheesy title but amazing content)
on “Ask HN: What is your advice for a technical founder learning sales?” ↗Never split the difference : Chris Voss [0] & Start with No : Jim Camp [1] opened my eyes to tactics used by sales/"business" folks when they negotiate with me and provided some tips which help me in my own negotiations. Case in point: A car dealer mentioned…
on “Ask HN: Recommend books that give you insight into other professions” ↗You would probably enjoy "Start with No" [0] referenced in the book. I took away a few lessons from this book :) [0] https://www.amazon.com.au/Start-No-Jim-Camp/dp/0609608002/re...
on “Ask HN: Which book or course gave you an unfair advantage?” ↗"Start with no" by Jim Camp ;)
on “Ask HN: Books on specific topics that have applied to many areas of your life?” ↗