Fire in the lake
by Frances FitzGerald · first published 1967
8mentions
1recommended by
4HN commenters
2014–2020first – last mentioned
25% recommend75% neutral
The is the most thorough and yet scholarly overview of the wars in Vietnam from the French to the Americans and why and how America lost the war mostly by not understanding Vietnam and her people and culture but also not understanding war and ourselves and not realizing that the only true victory is winning the hearts of the people, the majority of the people.
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…group that has the most weapons...” Violence reigns in the absence of state legitimacy. Governments that forget this tend to fall into chaos, lawlessness and corruption. For example, Somalia. Or read Fire in the Lake for an examination of the way all the violence in the world couldn’t make up for the lack of legitimacy of the US-backed South Vietnamese government. When Weber is talking about the state being defined…
on “Facebook announces policy changes ahead of 2020 elections” ↗…Material culture, ie no guns or steel armor. Military technique is highly contingent on the society and technology that gives rise to it: the army is always in some fashion a mirror of the state. For example Fire in the Lake is a really fascinating analysis of (in part) why transplanting western military practice to south Vietnam (as ARVN forces) failed while the Viet Cong flourished. Ignoring that requires reducing military…
on “Why Military History?” ↗If I was going to pick one Frances Fitzgerald book it would be "Cities on a Hill"[1] not "Fire in the Lake". One explains why our foreign policy fails and the other explains who we believe ourselves to be and how that shapes who we are. McPhee's "Encounter with the Archdruid"[2] and Reisner's "Cadillac Desert"[3]…
on “Books that have stayed with us” ↗…wrong. > [Vietnam] was not a conflict between a society with military history knowledge and one without. Yes, that point was aimed at the claim that military knowledge transcends culture. The argument in Fire in the Lake doesn’t have anything to do with the US’s willingness to do “what was necessary” (ie the old “if they only let our boys off the leash” saw). It’s about how the VC approach to recruitment, organization…
on “Why Military History?” ↗Fire in the Lake, which boils down to Ho Chi Minh was the "best" world leader of the 20th century? Best as in most capable and effective and intelligent not necessarily best as in matches my ideal of leadership?
on “Books that have stayed with us” ↗…experience approaching the divine. It is a very, very, very fine game. Pictured behind him is a fine collection. A lot of great and interesting games, though I would have expected more war games...stuff like Fire In The Lake, Sword of Rome, etc.
on “Billionaire, Board Game God and Tech's Hidden Disruptor (2019)” ↗…latency than any sort of GUI. Also market segmentation. Lets talk Vietnam. You reach the drooling masses with a graphical action movie like "Platoon". You reach the intellectuals with a book like "Fire in the Lake". There is no universal human "right" or "wrong" just different tools. Given the above paragraph it is highly likely that noobs / non technical people will stick with touch and GUI and productive tech…
on “KDE Plasma 5” ↗"gave way to capitalist corruption" Those anecdotes read like someone who never read "Fire in the Lake". The article anecdotes sound less corrupt than BAU in in the urban areas during the war.
on “Vietnam 40 years on: how a communist victory gave way to capitalist corruption” ↗